Proceedings at joint sitting (стр. 2 )

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, take your seat.

Prince M G BUTHELEZI: Hon member Mr Ndlozi is saying you must put it to the House. I propose that this matter be put to the House whether we go on or not, and let us vote on it.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, Joint Sittings are not for debates or taking of decisions. Joint Sittings have one item. This particular one has one item.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Respectfully...

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, take your seat.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: There is a member who is taking videos.

The SPEAKER: Hon member, your conduct is now not only interfering with the ability of Parliament to conduct the business of today, but you are also disregarding the authority of the Chair. If you do not take your seats and co-operate with the Chair, we will have no option but to ask you to leave. I am not recognising you now. I am not allowing you to raise any more points. I now, hon members... [Interjections.]

Hon Chief Whip?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I raised my hand first. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: You stood up; I raised my hand. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: I didn’t see his hand. I saw his hand.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, he stood up; I raised my hand. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Speak, hon Chief Whip.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: In the same Rules book that everybody is using on the procedures of Joint Sittings, Rule 13(2) says: “No vote or decision may be taken by or in a Joint Sitting.”

I move that it is the same Rule that everybody is using. So, there is no Rule applying to our voting or taking decisions. The President must just address the House, and we will debate next week.

The SPEAKER: I recognise the hon Steenhuisen.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. We have Rules of Parliament to govern the sittings of this House. This Joint Sitting is no exception. The Rules are very important because they ensure that there is a proper, free flow of debate in the House and that everybody has a right to have something to say. The point that needs to be made however, Madam Speaker, is that if you expect us to abide by the Rules then you, Madam Speaker, must abide by the Rules yourself. You have no right to unilaterally come to the House today and remove Rules from the Rule book. If you had wanted to do that, the opportunity was on 11 November last year when the Joint Rules were reassessed. You did not choose to do that. You have no power, Madam Speaker, to come here and make Rules up or remove Rules that exist in this Rule book on your own volition. We want to abide by the Rules, Madam Speaker, but you need to abide by the Rules as well and set the example. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Hon Speaker, I think we can proceed. I don’t think there should be a problem, because the Rules make provision for what we need to do. Rule 14(u) makes provision for points of order to be taken, but a point of order needs to deal with procedure. So, I would suggest that we cannot just suspend a Rule in this fashion. We cannot also take a decision on that. So, if somebody should make a point of order in terms of Rule 14(u), you can rule from the Chair that it does not deal with procedure and rule it out of order and the proceedings can continue. That is the way that we should do it. We cannot suspend Rules on the run today.

Mr J S MALEMA: Speaker, you must withdraw that proposal, please. [Laughter.] Hon Speaker, you are winning awards now. Just carry on like that. This type of conduct may compromise your chances of winning more international awards... please. Now you are going to win a Sankara award once you withdraw that one, please.

The SPEAKER: Can I just remind you of what I said a few minutes ago. I said to you that what you were raising as so-called points of order had no direct bearing on this sitting. [Interjections.]

The HON MEMBERS: No!!

The SPEAKER: In other words, they were out of order and that is what I was doing. I was ruling them out of order. And I really now, hon members...

Mr G A GARDEE: Madam Speaker, let us talk to you.

The SPEAKER: ... am not going to allow you to continue disrupting us. [Interjections.] I am going to ask that you either co-operate or you don’t. If you don’t, we will have to ask you to withdraw from the Chamber. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, with due respect, we are not disrupting.

The SPEAKER: Yes, you are.

Mr J S MALEMA: No, we are not.

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, I am not going allowing you any more now.

Mr J S MALEMA: When you said to us we must sit down, we sat down.

The SPEAKER: No, hon Malema. You have raised what you said were points of order, and I told you that they had no bearing on this sitting. And I am saying now: Take your seats so that we can proceed, or, if you don’t want to co-operate, leave the Chamber.

Mr J S MALEMA: No, we are co-operating, hon Speaker. All we are asking is that these Rules of a Joint Sitting must be reaffirmed by you that these are the Rules which are going to govern...

The SPEAKER: ... which is why I ruled your points of order as being out of order. And I am saying we are now going to proceed. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Chairperson of the NCOP...

The SPEAKER: So you...

Mr J S MALEMA: ... don’t sit there; intervene.

The SPEAKER: ... you will now...

Mr J S MALEMA: You are co-chairing; it’s a Joint Sitting.

The SPEAKER: We will now ask you to leave the Chamber, hon Malema... [Interjections.] ... because you consistently continue with spurious points of order, which are not points of order. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker...

The SPEAKER: They have no bearing on this sitting.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Speaker... Hon Speaker...

The SPEAKER: I have not recognised you, hon Shivambu.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Yes, I am asking for recognition; I am aware. I would have spoken if I had been recognised. I am asking for recognition.

The SPEAKER: On what point?

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: On point 14(c) of the Joint Rules of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces. It says that this House may not be interrupted unless there is a point of order or point of privilege... May I please finish before you interrupt me? And we came to ask here that before we proceed... you had said from the Chair there that you were going to unilaterally – alone - declare and decree that the Rules had been suspended. And we are saying to you that such is not procedural. All the sittings of the NCOP, of the NA and of Joint Sittings are governed by Rules. So, let us use the Rules to govern the entire process without suspending any of those. Because if you continue in the manner you have proposed, we are going to make certain interventions and then you will criminalise us: calling those thugs to come and assault us here, like you did in the previous sitting. And we don’t want such to happen. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, I have been very patient with you and the other members of the EFF. This Joint Sitting is governed under the Joint Rules that were adopted in November 2015. And we are going to proceed on that basis. We are not going to allow you any more opportunity to continue disrupting us. And I now, hon Malema, prevail on you to give leadership to the EFF sitting in those benches to co-operate with this sitting, because we are going to continue with the Joint Sitting as convened today for the state of the nation address.

Mr G A GARDEE: May we assist you, Madam Speaker?

The SPEAKER: Hon Gardee, I am not recognising you.

Mr G A GARDEE: Only if you can just... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: I am not recognising you.

Mr G A GARDEE: ... listen a little bit... [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: I am not wanting to listen. And I am not going to allow you to disrupt any more. [Interjections.] I am not going to allow you to disrupt any more.

Ms N V MENTE: Madam Speaker...

The SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seats.

Ms N V MENTE: Madam Speaker...

The SPEAKER: Members of the EFF, make up your minds whether you want to stay in the Chamber or whether you want to withdraw. [Interjections.]

The HON MEMBERS OF THE EFF: We want to stay here. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: No, but you want to disrupt. And I am not going to allow that. [Interjections.]

Ms N V MENTE: No, you are threatening us. You are threatening us. [Interjections.] You can’t say we are disruptors. We are hon members of the House.

The SPEAKER: Take your seat.

Ms N V MENTE: We are not disruptors. You are threatening us.

The SPEAKER: What you are doing is not honourable.

Ms N V MENTE: You allowed DA members to speak. You allowed uTata we-IFP [father of the IFP] to speak. You allowed the FF Plus to speak, but when it comes to us, we must not speak.

The SPEAKER: Take your seat.

Ms N V MENTE: Who are we?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker...

Ms N V MENTE: We belong to this House. Mama, ndiyacela. [Please, Madam.]

The SPEAKER: Niyasilibazisa. [You are delaying us.]

That’s what you are doing.

Ms N V MENTE: Asinilibazisi, Mama. Musa ukusigrogrisa, siyakucela. [We are not delaying you, Madam. Please don’t threaten us.]

The SPEAKER: Niyasilibazisa. [You are delaying us.]

Hon Maimane?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I can’t see where this thing is going. In fact, I think all of us agree that the EFF have accepted that we are going to operate on the Joint Rules. We cannot delay this thing. South Africans are waiting for their answers to be put forward. Can I ask that we proceed and get the state of the nation on the go? Please! [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Your point of intervention is sustained, hon Maimane, and I now call on the hon the President to address the Joint Sitting. [Applause.]

ADDRESS BY PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Speaker of the National Assembly; Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: Madam Speaker...

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly...

Mr M G P LEKOTA: On a point of order, Madam Speaker...