Proceedings at joint sitting (стр. 1 )

THURSDAY, 11 FEBRUARY 2016

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PROCEEDINGS AT JOINT SITTING

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Members of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces assembled in the Chamber of the National Assembly at 19:04.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker... Hon Speaker and Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, may I please have your attention?

The SPEAKER: No, hon Shivambu. I would not like to give you attention at this point. Could you please take your seat?

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I want some assurance because we want to know the Rules that are constituting this House – if they are all applicable, because we have been having... [Inaudible.] ...

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: ... press conferences that say that these are not applicable. Are you going to be able to recognise me later?

The SPEAKER: Please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Are you going to recognise me later?

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I will take my seat but I am going to come before the President comes so that we get clarity in terms of the Rules that are going to be applicable in this House, because we must know what guides this House...

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: [Inaudible.] ... that we are speaking about these issues.

CALLING OF JOINT SITTING

The SPEAKER: Hon members, the President has called this Joint Sitting...

Mr J S MALEMA: But Speaker, can we be recognised, please.

The SPEAKER: ... of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces...

Mr J S MALEMA: On a point of order, hon Speaker.

The SPEAKER: ... in terms of section 84(2)(d) of the Constitution...

Mr J S MALEMA: Hon Speaker, can you please recognise me on a point of order because...

The SPEAKER: ... of the Republic of South Africa...

Mr J S MALEMA: ... points of order are part of the Rules and you can’t refuse like that as if points of order are not part of the Rules.

The SPEAKER: ... read with Joint Rules 7(1)(a) in order to deliver his state of the nation address.

Mr J S MALEMA: The Rules are very important because they govern this House. All of us must be governed by the Rules, Speaker. [Interjections.] Because, without the Rules, we are going to have a problem.

The SPEAKER: This sitting... Hon Malema, please take your seat. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Can I... I am rising on a point of privilege, Speaker.

The SPEAKER: Take your seat. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Can I rise on a point of privilege, Speaker?

The SPEAKER: No, hon Malema. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Are we not running according to...

The SPEAKER: Allow me to finish. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Please, I don’t want...

The SPEAKER: Allow me to finish, hon Malema.

Mr J S MALEMA: I don’t want to stand up when the President is there. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, allow me to finish. This sitting is meant specifically for the purpose of affording the President an opportunity to deliver the state of the nation address. On this occasion, no business other than the address by the President is entertained. [Applause.]

We also wish to remind members that the debate on the address will take place on 16 and 17 February when members will have an opportunity to fully engage and debate the President’s address.

On 18 February, the President will reply to the debate.

The above is consistent with the message that the presiding officers conveyed to the whips of all political parties represented here. We trust that all political parties will ensure the smooth and orderly running of proceedings today.

Hon members, I request that points of order and questions of privilege be dealt with in the sittings of next week... [Interjections.] ... unless they have a direct bearing on the current sitting. [Interjections.]

Hon members, I now call...

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Speaker, but you have proposed that we must not use points of order and what-what here. We are not... [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu... [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: You can’t... [Inaudible.] You don’t have the power to decree a Rule. You are not God! [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: We have the power of the Chair.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: You must allow us to decide whether... [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: We have the power of the Chair. [Interjections.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Allow us to speak! We are obeying the Rule process here, and you are saying no. [Inaudible.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Shivambu, we have the power of the Chair. That’s the power we have. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: Which Rule is that? Where is the Rule? Point us to that Rule. [Interjections.] The Rule... Tell us the Rule. Which Rule? We must be governed by Rules here, not by emotions. We must be told which Rule gives you such powers to suspend a Rule of the Joint Sitting. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Which Rule?

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema... [Interjections.]

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Speaker... My international award-winning Speaker of non-violence. [Laughter.] [Inaudible.] ... to be recognised. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Honourable...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Please, take a point of order.

The SPEAKER: I have made...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: You have made a proposal, hon Baleka Mbete. You must put it to the House. [Interjections.] You are saying that we must suspend certain Rules today under certain conditions...

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: ... my international award-winning hon Speaker of non-violence... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Please help us... because you went to a press conference and threatened that you were going to undo the Rules of Parliament. So now we realise you want to make a proposal. Allow us to engage with that proposal, please.

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, today’s sitting is convened to enable the President...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: But I want to respond to your proposal.

The SPEAKER: ... to deliver his state of the nation address.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: No problem! You are the one who introduced the point of proposal.

The SPEAKER: ... and we told you that hon members will have the opportunity next week to engage...

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Then you should have proposed that next week! You should have made that proposal next week, not here. But since you have made it, let us debate your proposal. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, take your seats! [Interjections.] Take your seat, hon Ndlozi.

Dr H CHEWANE: Hon Speaker, we don’t always have to go to the Constitutional Court for you to run the business of this House properly. We don’t always have to do that. We don’t always have to do that and we don’t need to do that. You have demonstrated that to flout the Rules of this Parliament... You have demonstrated by allowing illegal commissions to take place in this Parliament. So, please, there has never a time where a sitting is going to go on in this Parliament and Rules suspended. Please, guide us. We need to run this House as hon Members of Parliament.

The SPEAKER: Hon members, Joint Rule 14(g) provides that:

If the presiding officer is of the opinion that a member is deliberately contravening a provision of the Rules, or that a member is in contempt of or is disregarding the authority of the Chair, or that a member’s conduct is grossly disorderly, he or she may order the member to withdraw immediately from the Chamber for the remainder of the sitting.

We would now like hon members to co-operate, otherwise we are going to have to ask you to withdraw from the Chamber.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Hon Speaker...

Mme T J MOKWELE: Motlotlegi Mmusakgotla, ke kopa go botsa gore a molao o o fetsang go bua ka ona o, a dirisiwa mo Ntlong eno? Ke botsa jaana gonne wena ka sebele, o buile mo mmediyeng gore go na le melao mengwe e o sa tleng go e dirisa gompieno. Ke botsa gore ke melao efe e re tshwanetseng go e dirisa le gore ke efe e re sa tshwanelang go e dirisa? (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Ms T J MOKWELE: Hon Speaker, if I may ask: Is the law that you have just referred to, applicable to this House? This is as a result of you telling the media that some laws would not be applicable today. I would like to get clarity as to which laws are applicable and which laws are not?]

The SPEAKER: I have not recognised you, hon member.

Ms T J MOKWELE: Motlotlegi Mmusakgotla, ga o ise o neye ope tšhono fa e sale ngangisano e simolola gompieno. Re kopa gore o re neele tšhono. [Hon Speaker, since the beginning of this debate, you have not recognised any of us. Please recognise us.]

The SPEAKER: I have not recognised you, hon member. Please take your seat.

Ms H O HLOPHE: Speaker, can you recognise me, please.

The SPEAKER: What are you rising on? [Interjections.]

Ms H O HLOPHE: On a point of order: 14(c).

The SPEAKER: What is the point of order?

Ms H O HLOPHE: The point of order is that, Madam Speaker, in the press briefing that you had yesterday you suspended some Rules... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: That’s not a point of order.

Ms H O HLOPHE: We want clarity on that one before we start.

The SPEAKER: That’s not a point of order, hon member. I am now not going to allow any more points of order. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: On a point of order, I am rising on Rule 14(c) because it looks like you are using the same Rules we are using.

The SPEAKER: What is the point of order, hon Malema?

Mr J S MALEMA: The point of order, hon Speaker, is that we want an assurance from you. We have no problem that these Rules are going to apply today. And if we are going to go with the proposal you have made, then put it to the House. You cannot just come and announce that this is what is going to happen in a democratic Parliament. Please put that proposal on the table and let’s discuss it, and if the need arises... [Interjections.]

THE SPEAKER: Un-uh.

Mr J S MALEMA: You can’t say un-uh... [Laughter.] ... because there is a Rule here. We work according to the Rules, Speaker. Please let’s debate this matter.