Proceedings at joint sitting (стр. 4 )

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Speaker...

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... Mr Sam Nzima. [Applause.]

Mr M S MBATHA: Thixo. [God.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: We also salute the class of 1976 for their bravery... [Applause.]

Mr M S MBATHA: Hon Modise... Point of order, hon Speaker.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... in standing up against the brutal apartheid regime. We acknowledge...

Mr M S MBATHA: Point of order, hon Speaker.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: ... one of the activists of that era, the Deputy Secretary...

The SPEAKER: Hon President, I regret to have to ask you again to take your seat so that we can perhaps make progress in dealing with this point of order. What is the point of order, hon Mbatha?

Mr M S MBATHA: Thank you very much, hon Speaker.

Mr M S MBATHA: Bengicela ukubuza umbuzo Mongameli. [May I ask you a question, hon President?]

The SPEAKER: No.

Mr M S MBATHA: Ungawuthatha umbuzo? [Can you take a question?]

The SPEAKER: No.

The SPEAKER: Cha! [No!]

Mr M S MBATHA: Kwenziwa yini Mongameli ukuthi... [Ubuwelewele.] [Hon President, why... [Interjections.]]

The SPEAKER: No, hon Mbatha, this is not a time for questions.

Mr M S MBATHA: ... usinikeze oNgqongqoshe abaningi kangaka? [...do we have so many Ministers?]

The SPEAKER: Hon Mbatha... Hon Mbatha, this is not an opportunity for questions.

Mr M S MBATHA: Bengicela ukubuza name. [I would also like to ask a question.]

The SPEAKER: Cha, awuzukwazi, awuvumelekanga ukuthi ubuze. [No, you can’t; you are not allowed to ask questions.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Mbatha, you are not allowed to ask questions on this occasion. And, really, hon members, I think I have to now clarify, for the understanding of all, that a point of order or question of privilege is only allowed if it calls attention to a transgression of a Joint Rule or an accepted parliamentary practice or a privilege. Freedom of speech is one of the privileges that members enjoy in the exercise of their constitutional obligations to represent their constituencies. This privilege is subject to the Rules and orders. Hon members, privileges are provided for in the Constitution and in the Powers, Privileges and Immunities of Parliament and Provincial Legislatures Act.

Spurious points of order are an abuse of the Rules and privilege of freedom of speech. [Applause.] Improperly interfering with or impeding the exercise or performance by Parliament of its authority or function constitutes a breach of privilege. Other breaches include improper interference with the performance by a member of his or her functions as a member, or threatening or obstructing a member proceeding to or going from a meeting of Parliament or a House or committee. I read this into the record so that we all understand what a point of order or privilege is about. It’s about these proceedings. Hon members, on those grounds, I am really prevailing on all of us to allow the state of the nation address to be delivered. [Applause.]

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Speaker, may I please address you?

The SPEAKER: No.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Why?

The SPEAKER: I have explained why.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Okay. I am rising on a point of order, hey.

The SPEAKER: No, hon Ndlozi.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: I don’t want to interrupt... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Ndlozi, we have spent a lot of minutes with the EFF interrupting and being disruptive. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: On a point of order... On a point of order, Speaker. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: You are being disruptive, members of the EFF.

Mr J S MALEMA: Please don’t address us as a group. Address us as individuals. [Interjections.] You can’t say you have been dealing with the EFF. We are speaking here as... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: I have.

Mr J S MALEMA: No. We are speaking here as members of this Parliament... [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Everybody has been seeing it. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: ... and you shall address us as individuals and not an assault on our party. We are standing... Yes, like that. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, you are not coming here to lecture us about how to run the proceedings of this sitting. [Interjections.] I am asking that you co-operate or make up your mind that you want to withdraw.

Mr J S MALEMA: We are not withdrawing, Speaker, and you are not going to tell how we must participate here. We were elected to come here and represent our constituents.

The SPEAKER: But you are also not going to come and be disruptive to the proceedings of the House. [Interjections.]

Mr J S MALEMA: We are standing up procedurally, and we... [Inaudible.] ... the Rules...

The SPEAKER: No, hon Malema.

Mr J S MALEMA: You may not agree with us, but we are rising on a point of privilege and order.

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema... Hon Malema! I really have to prevail on you to leave the Chamber... [Interjections.] [Applause.] ... because you are not interested in these proceedings.

Mr J S MALEMA: No, Speaker, you never asked me to sit down and I defied you; I am co-operating.

The SPEAKER: But what you are doing is continuously interrupting the proceedings.

Mr J S MALEMA: No. I stood up on a point of order that you must not call us as a group. So, I am co-operating with you. I am sitting down.

The SPEAKER: Hon Malema, I am calling on you to play your leadership role.

Mr J S MALEMA: Please!

The SPEAKER: I am calling on you to play your leadership role, as I have requested all political parties to make sure that we can have smooth state of the nation proceedings.

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Speaker, would you please allow the business for which this sitting has been called to continue. We are here to receive the state of the nation address, which we are very ready to debate next Tuesday and Wednesday. So, could you allow the business of the House, which is called for in terms of the Joint Rules and the Constitution, so that the President can present the state of the nation address? And would you, Speaker, please assist us by not having extended dialogues with members of the House and allow us to continue. [Applause.]

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: Hon Chairperson of the NCOP?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Shivambu, you have not been recognised.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I am asking for recognition, like you recognised the hon Pandor. We are equal... [Inaudible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On what point are you rising?

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: I am rising on a point of order.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Yes, sir, which point of order?

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: When the Speaker is dealing with members of the EFF... Someone has switched off my microphone. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Someone has switched off my microphone. Can it go on, please? [Interjections.] It is not on yet. Can you switch it on, please? Switch on my microphone, please. The Chair of the NCOP had recognised me. Can I continue?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: On what point of order - that was the...

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: The principle issue that we are raising is that there is no Rule that says that you can deal with a political party as a whole caucus: to say that EFF members are doing this and that. There are lots of Members of Parliament who have not said anything. The hon Dlamini has not said anything today. The hon Chewane has not said anything. You can’t say that all of you are a problem and if you want to leave you must leave. That is not how this House is run. If you have a problem with a specific member...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Shivambu, I have heard you. That is not a point of order.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But it’s a point of order.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That point was made by the hon Malema. Please take your seat.

Mr N F SHIVAMBU: But is my point noted, Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That is not a point of order. Please take your seat. Hon members, it might be nice to spend time doing what we are doing. I don’t think we are earning South Africa any credit doing what we are doing. [Applause.] The Rules are every clear. On 20 November 2015 the Joint Rules adopted the Rules which govern the proceedings of today. Can we please respect those Rules and allow the business of this sitting to continue?

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chair, may I please address you like other members have?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ndlozi, please take you seat.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: May I please address you, Chair?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Please take your seat.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chairperson, I am... [Inaudible.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ndlozi! I am pleading with you to take your seat. Thank you.

Mr M Q NDLOZI: Hon Chair, this is a problem.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Ndlozi, thank you.

Mr M M DLAMINI: On a point of order, Chair.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is no point of...

Mr M M DLAMINI: Wait, wait. Let me speak. Why do you allow ANC people to speak and when it comes to us you don’t allow us to speak? What is wrong, man?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon member, you will excuse me as I do not know your name, but you are not going to address the Chair in that way.

Mr M M DLAMINI: Wait! You don’t have to know my name - that is not a problem. Why do you allow ANC people to speak and when it comes to us we are not allowed to speak here? [Interjections.] All of us must account to this House and to this nation...

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Dlamini, you were not recognised and you were not given the floor. Please take your seat.

Ms N V MENTE: Mama, ndicela undimamele. [Please listen to me, Madam.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Ma’am, I am not going to give you the floor. We started this sitting going round and round in circles.

Ms N V MENTE: Ndicela undivumele ndithethe. [Please allow me to speak.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No.

Ms N V MENTE: Ubavumele abanye abantu. [You allowed other people.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, rising on spurious points of order is not going to help this House.

Ms N V MENTE: Nisebenza njani kanti apha? Ukuba ubusivumela sithethe ngesigqibile ngoku. [What procedure do you use here? If you were allowing us to talk we could have finished now.]